| --- Log opened Sun Oct 22 00:00:03 2006 |
| 00:18 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #Code |
| 00:26 | | ChalcyCooking is now known as Chalcedon |
| 00:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...this is intruiging. |
| 00:28 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | ? |
| 00:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, a while ago I got a 4GB USB key. It worked for a while and then stopped working, because - as I found out only after I could no longer return it - it was actually a tiny single-platter hard drive, not a solid-state storage device. |
| 00:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, I finally took it apart. |
| 00:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | The hard drive is not ATA spec, it's compactflash spec. |
| 00:29 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | a hard drive that uses flash? |
| 00:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's a compactflash card that's actually a single-platter, 4GB hard drive. |
| 00:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | No. |
| 00:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's a hard drive that works normally, but the size and interface as the same as a CF card. |
| 00:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | It fits perfectly into a CF reader. |
| 00:30 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | O.o |
| 00:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | The circuitry in the casing with it is basically a USB compactflash reader semipermanently bonded to the drive. |
| 00:30 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | sweeeet. too bad it broke. |
| 00:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah. |
| 00:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | I may have to pick up a 1GB model at some point, if I have cash to burn on random experimentation, and see if I can actually read/write it in a CF slot or if the circuitry also contains translation software or something. |
| 00:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although it may be cheaper just to get a 1GB solid-state CF card~ |
| 00:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...of course, one of the implications of this is that the circuit board, now that it's been unbonded from the HDD, is a compactflash reader. |
| 00:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | I know I have a spare 128MB CF card around here somewhere... |
| 00:32 | | aoanla is now known as caps[t-2] |
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| 00:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. |
| 00:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | It shows up in /proc/scsi/usb-storage but not in /proc/partitions. |
| 00:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Holy shit. |
| 00:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | I had it the wrong way around. |
| 00:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | It works. |
| 00:37 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | sweet. |
| 00:37 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Now you can carry around compactflash cards and not have to worry that the target computer doesn't have one. |
| 00:38 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:38 | < ReivZzz> | ...That is remarkably classy, TF. |
| 00:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah. A CF reader the size of my thumb. |
| 00:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | With a snazzy blue "activity" LED. |
| 00:40 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | It even fits back into the original case. |
| 00:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Bam, I now have a 128MB USB stick in addition to my 256 and 1GB flavours. |
| 00:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus-Latens: of course, the problem with this idea is that (1) the tiny cf reader is all exposed circuits and pins, not very durable and (2) the smallest of my USB pendrives has the same capacity as all of my CF cards put together. |
| 00:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | But it might still be handy for modifying Auxilior in the field or something. |
| 00:53 | | ReivZzz is now known as Reiver |
| 00:55 | | * Janus looks blankly at the spot where the AI goes. |
| 00:57 | <@McMartin> | Sounds like a good spot for a Lua script! |
| 00:59 | | * Janus looks blankly at the spot where the Lua script goes. |
| 01:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Mmm, Lua. |
| 01:00 | <@McMartin> | If you're trying to get enemy agents to do something, start with them, like, marching in straight lines. |
| 01:01 | < Janus> | That would be a good start, I think. |
| 01:09 | < Janus> | It's a little intimidating; the original vision I had to this game put a lot of emphasis on the NPC. Basically, the player should be able to run into the same one every once and awhile, and they would travel and carry on with their business, especially if the player wasn't around. Of course, that was back when I was all concept and no implementation... |
| 01:12 | <@McMartin> | Have multiple objects be that NPC. |
| 01:12 | <@McMartin> | Or teleport him from way off-screen to just off-screen as needed |
| 01:14 | | * Janus looks blankly at the spot where Mr. Martin's sayin' stuff. |
| 01:15 | | Chalcedon is now known as ChalcyNap |
| 01:16 | <@McMartin> | Later. Dinner first. |
| 01:17 | <@McMartin> | The key theory however is that what the NPC does when the PC can't see him is nobody's business but yours. |
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| 01:19 | < Janus> | That's ... actually very helpful, poetic awe aside. Thankies~ |
| 01:20 | <@McMartin> | "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo" |
| 01:21 | | ChalcyNap [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 01:23 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | heh |
| 01:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Snrk. |
| 01:33 | | * Reiver rigs Vorn's demo. |
| 01:33 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | !? |
| 01:33 | < Reiver> | :) |
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| 06:36 | <@McMartin> | Vorn! |
| 06:36 | <@McMartin> | Also TF, but TF is presumably gone. |
| 06:38 | < Vornicus> | ? |
| 06:38 | <@McMartin> | There is a SpeedIF running this weekend. |
| 06:38 | <@McMartin> | Per this conversation: |
| 06:38 | <@McMartin> | dfan | Perform a Skit - Write and perform a skit about why copyright |
| 06:38 | <@McMartin> | protection is important. |
| 06:38 | <@McMartin> | dfan says, "Man, we should totally do a SpeedIF" |
| 06:38 | <@McMartin> | Feel free to consult http://mpaa.org/press_releases/boy0scouts0press0release. |
| 06:38 | <@McMartin> | pdf and http://mpaa.org/press_releases/ |
| 06:38 | <@McMartin> | respect0copyrights0curriculum0and0patch.pdf for more inspiration. You have |
| 06:38 | <@McMartin> | until Monday, 10/23, to finish. Sign here with completed games. |
| 06:39 | < Vornicus> | aha |
| 06:45 | <@McMartin> | SpeedIFs, for those unfamiliar with them, are text adventures that one writes in 2 hours or less. |
| 06:46 | < Vornicus> | It took me 4 hours to write Blingtanium. |
| 06:46 | <@McMartin> | Of course, Blingtanium also had quite a few rooms, and actual puzzles, and you were learning the language as you went. |
| 06:47 | | * Vornicus is not nearly experienced enough with inform 7 to get anything useful in 2 hours. |
| 06:47 | | * McMartin had written three works in Inform 6 before attempting The Stars Are Right. |
| 06:47 | | * Vornicus has written one. |
| 06:47 | <@McMartin> | ... none of which are actually available for download anywhere. |
| 06:47 | <@McMartin> | Wait, only two. |
| 06:47 | <@McMartin> | Both ports. |
| 06:47 | <@McMartin> | One of the silly high school project, and one of which was a character-perfect port of the first Thy Dungeonman. |
| 06:48 | <@McMartin> | With an added cameo by Trogdor. |
| 06:48 | < Vornicus> | sweeeet |
| 06:49 | <@McMartin> | And which I really should send off to the H*R guys at some point. |
| 06:49 | < Vornicus> | They have an email address. |
| 06:49 | <@McMartin> | Yes. I'm just lazy, etc. |
| 06:50 | <@McMartin> | http://www.stanford.edu/~mcmartin/if/dungeonman.z5 |
| 06:50 | < Vornicus> | A;su/ |
| 06:50 | < Vornicus> | Also. |
| 06:50 | < Vornicus> | Why is Marshie so fucking creepy? |
| 06:52 | <@McMartin> | I do not know. I tend to avoid H*R, really. |
| 06:52 | < Vornicus> | bah |
| 07:19 | | Ev3 [~Shemhazai@Nightstar-8502.ds1-ba.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
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| 07:44 | | Reiver is now known as Reiver2 |
| 07:46 | | Reiver2 is now known as Reiver3 |
| 08:04 | | * jerith contemplates. |
| 08:04 | <@jerith> | Am I allowed more time to write said SpeedIF if I don't know the language? |
| 08:05 | | Reiver3 is now known as Reiver4 |
| 08:09 | <@jerith> | Except there seems to not be and Inform for any OS I currently have available. :-( |
| 08:09 | <@jerith> | s/and/an/ |
| 08:09 | | Reiver4 is now known as Reiver5 |
| 08:10 | <@McMartin> | Well, maybe not an I7 |
| 08:10 | <@McMartin> | I6 is on Damn Near Everything. |
| 08:11 | | Reiver5 is now known as Reiver |
| 08:11 | <@jerith> | Aww, I wanted to poke at I7. :-/ |
| 08:12 | <@McMartin> | There's an incomplete GTK/WINE port. |
| 08:12 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 08:12 | <@McMartin> | The cmdline tools work in WINE, but the build process is, to say the least, horrendously messy. |
| 08:12 | <@McMartin> | There aren't any good cmdline tools. |
| 08:13 | <@jerith> | And I don't have wine installed anyway. |
| 08:16 | <@McMartin> | If I had a scratch machine, I'd set up an I7-compiling web service, but I don't. |
| 08:17 | <@jerith> | Hmm... |
| 08:17 | <@jerith> | What would said service require? |
| 08:18 | <@jerith> | I could provide a Linux box... |
| 08:18 | <@McMartin> | (a) me to learn CGI, (b) A way of running WINE as apachecgi without compromising the whole system, (c) the Windows version of I7, (d) me to have a lot more time. |
| 08:18 | <@jerith> | Ah. |
| 08:19 | <@jerith> | So a project for *next* weekend, then. :-P |
| 08:19 | <@McMartin> | Maybe over Thanksgiving. |
| 08:19 | < Vornicus> | Or somebody to give me CGI stuff that hooks up to the command line tools - they run on OSX. |
| 08:19 | <@jerith> | Vornicus: Ruby has some neat CGI stuff... |
| 08:19 | <@McMartin> | Vorn: You'll have to pull what commands to feed the shell out of your own Progress tab, though; I suspect they are Different. |
| 08:20 | <@McMartin> | Basically, you need to get a "story.ni" file from the user, feed it to the commands that appear in the Progress Tab under Errors, and then serve back output.z5. |
| 08:20 | <@McMartin> | ... yeah, that probably would be way easier on a Mac. |
| 08:22 | | * jerith considers doing the plot now and downloading the tools when he has his Windows box up again. |
| 08:22 | <@McMartin> | Handily, a lot of that can translate pretty directly into I7 syntax. |
| 08:23 | <@McMartin> | Especially map descriptions. |
| 08:23 | | * jerith ponders an I7 mode for emacs. |
| 08:24 | <@McMartin> | Text mode, as long as it preserves "tab". |
| 08:25 | <@jerith> | I was thinking more along the lines of "pretty syntax colouring". |
| 08:26 | <@McMartin> | Ah. |
| 08:26 | <@McMartin> | Mostly strings and brackets, then. |
| 08:28 | | * Vornicus finds syntax coloring less useful of late |
| 08:28 | | * jerith decides to actually get the windows box up before starting. |
| 08:28 | <@McMartin> | The I7 compiler produces a bunch of HTML files as indices into the code as part of compilation |
| 08:28 | | Syloqs-AFH [Syloq@NetAdmin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 08:28 | <@McMartin> | This is typically way more useful than the syntax colors. |
| 08:28 | <@jerith> | That way I can do more of an exploratory design. |
| 08:29 | <@jerith> | Which means fixing my extension lead first. |
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| 08:55 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 09:08 | | EvilDarkLord is now known as David |
| 09:20 | <@jerith> | Having plugged in the Windows box again, I now download I7. |
| 09:34 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 10:13 | <@jerith> | McMartin: Where do I submit my entry? |
| 10:28 | < Reiver> | done already? |
| 10:30 | <@jerith> | Not yet, but I was hoping to get an answer before he went away. |
| 10:36 | <@McMartin> | There's a MUD they use to collect data on this, which serves mainly as an IRC-like thing. |
| 10:36 | <@McMartin> | If you want, I can direct them to it; otherwise, go to ifmud.port4000.com and sign the SpeedIF Copyright book in the Adventurer's Lounge. |
| 10:37 | | * McMartin comes up with a properly silly concept, resolves to implement it tomorrow. |
| 10:37 | <@jerith> | I hope it's not my silly concept... |
| 10:37 | <@McMartin> | To wit: Paramdeic Daleks. |
| 10:37 | <@McMartin> | Probably not your silly concept. |
| 10:37 | <@TheWatcher> | ... |
| 10:37 | <@jerith> | Ah, it isn't. :-) |
| 10:38 | <@McMartin> | (DE FIB RIL LATE! DE FIB RIL LATE!) |
| 10:38 | <@jerith> | 11:11 < jerith> The current plan is a game called "Pirates of the Caribou" and involves the player downloading the latest Ubuntu (Careful Caribou) and being sued by the RIAA. |
| 10:38 | | * jerith giggles. |
| 10:38 | <@jerith> | This I have to see... |
| 10:38 | | * TheWatcher notes that the only IF idea he has would take rather longer than 2 hours to implement |
| 10:39 | <@TheWatcher> | As in, a text version of MoDH |
| 10:39 | <@jerith> | I'm allowing myself 3 hours as I have to learn I7 at the same time. |
| 10:55 | <@McMartin> | MoDH? |
| 11:00 | <@TheWatcher> | Mages of Drom's Head. Thief 2 mission I was working on a couple of years ago, lovecraft-esque with metahumour added |
| 11:01 | <@TheWatcher> | The problem sI ran into were maily the restrictions in the dark engine as far as level complexity were concerned, and it's harder to get the atmosphere just right (in places I was even going to experiment wiht infrasound, hoping people had remotely decent sound cards |
| 11:02 | <@TheWatcher> | http://t2.starforge.co.uk/ |
| 11:04 | <@TheWatcher> | (I was rather pleased with the locks on the library - I was the first person to come up with twin pseudo-random combination locks with clues in arbitrary text throughout th elevel AFAIK |
| 11:04 | <@TheWatcher> | ) |
| 13:56 | | Thaqui is now known as ThaquiSleep |
| 14:13 | | Reiver is now known as ReivZzz |
| 15:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: thanks for the heads up, but my I7-fu is not yet sufficient and the subject matter does nothing for me. |
| 15:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | "We are using here a powerful strategy of synthesis: wishful thinking." |
| 15:34 | | David is now known as EvilDarkLord |
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| 17:28 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 18:11 | | EvilDarkLord is now known as EvilInTransitLord |
| 18:22 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 18:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...hmm. |
| 18:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | mzScheme appears to use less accurate floats than Ghostscript. |
| 18:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | > (+ 0.036 0.003 0.121 0.060 0.691 0.062 0.027) |
| 18:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | 0.9999999999999999 |
| 18:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | GS>0.036 0.003 0.121 0.060 0.691 0.062 0.027 add add add add add add == |
| 18:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | 1.0 |
| 18:46 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #Code |
| 18:48 | | * Vornicus points out that ghostscript is doing those additions backwards |
| 18:48 | < Vornicus> | and that floating point tends to, you know, break the rules. |
| 18:51 | < Vornicus> | try (+ 0.027 0.062 0.691 0.060 0.121 0.003 0.036) |
| 18:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Nope, still 0.9~ |
| 18:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | And adding them in reverse order in gs still gives 1.0 |
| 19:03 | < Janus> | Isn't addition supposed to be associative..? |
| 19:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, but floating-point fractional numbers don't always follow the rules. |
| 19:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | In an ideal world, they would, but they don't. |
| 19:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ghostscript's implementation appears to follow the rules better than MzScheme's. |
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| 20:33 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 23:10 | | * Vornicus takes no tea from McM |
| 23:10 | <@McMartin> | Now Vornicus has no tea and McM does not! |
| 23:11 | <@McMartin> | Actually, I won't have no tea for another 20-30 minutes. |
| 23:13 | < Vornicus> | oh, that's why I keep thinking of Jack Sparrow when I see that |
| 23:13 | < Vornicus> | "I just happen to have no dress in my cabin..." |
| 23:15 | | You're now known as Ishtralimnar |
| 23:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | BUIIIILD DAMN YOU |
| 23:15 | <@McMartin> | ? |
| 23:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, wait. |
| 23:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Needed to configure with --disable-gtk |
| 23:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | McM: Crossfire X11 client on Cygwin. |
| 23:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Orias is now uber enough to run a Crossfire server. |
| 23:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | The windows client, however, sucks. To put it charitably. |
| 23:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | The libX11 client (as opposed to the libGTK client) fulfills all my needs but there is no windows build, and as it is a realtime game I'd rather not have the overhead of talking X11 over the LAN. |
| 23:17 | <@McMartin> | ... What's Crossfire, again? |
| 23:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Realtime, graphical-tiles-based multiplayer roguelike. |
| 23:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | I've been playing it, and hacking on it, on and off since... |
| 23:19 | | * ToxicFrog rummages around in the mirrors for datestamps |
| 23:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | 1998. |
| 23:20 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:23 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | At the moment I'm having build issues because configure doesn't believe me when I tell it I don't want gtk. |
| 23:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Victory is mine |
| 23:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...sorta |
| 23:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. |
| 23:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Windows GTK: crashy, slow |
| 23:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Windows X11: stable, fast, horrible graphical corruption when player is running |
| 23:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Linux GTK: stable, slow |
| 23:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Linux X11: stable, fast but not as fast as windows due to X server communication delay. |
| 23:47 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-8486.adsl.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 23:54 | | * McMartin loses interest in the SpeedIF. |
| 23:55 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-8486.adsl.xtra.co.nz] has joined #code |
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| --- Log closed Mon Oct 23 00:00:03 2006 |