| --- Log opened Sun May 18 00:00:54 2014 |
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| 06:50 | <@thalass> | Howdy |
| 06:52 | <&McMartin> | Hey thalass |
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| 15:38 | < [R]> | <BLoCKh34D> attack() spawns more attack calls until attacknum => maxattacks <[R]> Sounds like a loop to me :p <BLoCKh34D> i think loops not good enough i like recurssive functions for this kinda stuff |
| 15:39 | <@Tamber> | loops... not good enough? Huh. |
| 15:39 | <@Azash> | Too much FP? |
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| 17:25 | <&McMartin> | Maybe he thinks this requires tree recursion? |
| 17:27 | < [R]> | Tree recursion? |
| 17:27 | <&McMartin> | Something like the naive way of doing fibonacci, where there's more than one recursive call at any given level |
| 17:27 | < [R]> | I guess |
| 17:27 | <&McMartin> | Which means that, while maybe one of the calls can be a tail call, the other can't, which means you can't trivially transform it into a loop |
| 17:28 | < [R]> | I can sort of see that, but still, it's not like you can't recurse from the loop if you really needed to do that. |
| 17:29 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 17:29 | < [R]> | (Situation is D&D attacks and Two-Weapon Fighting, the latter splits the very first attack into two) |
| 17:29 | <&McMartin> | You probably want more than one function overall for that but unless D&D is sillier than I remember - which it might be - you shouldn't require full recursion. |
| 17:30 | <&McMartin> | But you might, if you're trying to simulate, say, Pun-Pun |
| 17:30 | < [R]> | Yeah |
| 17:30 | < [R]> | This guy seems to like really big functions for whatever reason |
| 17:31 | < [R]> | *shrugs* |
| 17:31 | <&Derakon> | do_everything() is a popular function among those who don't have much experience in software design. |
| 17:32 | <@ErikMesoy> | There's always a splatbook out there which results in requiring full recursion :V |
| 17:33 | <&McMartin> | ErikMesoy: A fair point |
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| 17:35 | <@ErikMesoy> | First thing that comes to mind is Robilar's Gambit, which lets you get an attack of opportunity at everyone who attacks you for a round. (Prerequisite: Combat Reflexes.) While not full recursion, it's at least one level of "spawn an attack for each attack". |
| 17:36 | < [R]> | AoO can be done with an event system (which really, if you're doing D&D, you really fucking want one) |
| 17:38 | | Harlow [harlow@Nightstar-hvs7l5.chi.megapath.net] has joined #code |
| 17:42 | < Harlow> | I have a general question about people in the software industry. Do programmers/software-engineers typically work on weekends (whats industry standard, is there one)? |
| 17:42 | <&Derakon> | Don't let yourself get exploited. |
| 17:42 | <&Derakon> | I don't work on weekends as a rule. |
| 17:43 | <&Derakon> | The industry "standard", to the extent that there is one, is that young programmers burn themselves out working all the time, and older programmers have a sensible work/life balance. |
| 17:44 | <@Tamber> | "There's overtime and bonus opportunities galore; the young men like their money and they all come back for more. But soon you're knocking on, and you look older than you should; for every bob made on the job, you pay with flesh and blood."~ |
| 17:44 | < Harlow> | is that just by their own fault, or do companies play some role in this? |
| 17:45 | < [R]> | Managers can play a role in that |
| 17:45 | <&Derakon> | Absolutely companies are complicit. |
| 17:45 | <&Derakon> | If they set overly aggressive deadlines, then it's only partially the programmer's fault for not pushing back. |
| 17:48 | < Harlow> | how "overly aggressive" are these deadlines, I'm not in industry so I can't really get a sense of what that means. Something that would take more than 40-50 hours a week? (implying that 40-50 hrs a week, till completion of the project) |
| 17:48 | <&Derakon> | It varies wildly. |
| 17:49 | <&Derakon> | In the games industry you'll hear of employees pulling 80-hour weeks for months on end. |
| 17:49 | < Harlow> | No thanks. |
| 17:49 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, that's a recipe for burnout, don't do it. |
| 17:49 | <&Derakon> | I pull 40-hour weeks and haven't worked overtime in a long time, just doing normal software development. |
| 17:50 | < Harlow> | I'd rather write software for cameras. I hope there is a market for that, I haven't really looked yet though. |
| 17:50 | <&Derakon> | How do you mean, for cameras? |
| 17:50 | <&Derakon> | Like, to make a camera function, or to analyze the images it generates, or to share them, or what? |
| 17:51 | < Harlow> | lol, good point. No I mean like the firmware behind them, Image processing, refining and tuning autofocus/autoexposure algorithms. |
| 17:54 | < Harlow> | Sony in particular has spiked my interest, because they do a lot with software and their cameras. |
| 17:54 | <&McMartin> | "how "overly aggressive" are these deadlines" |
| 17:55 | <&McMartin> | In the abstract, this is a super-hard question to answer because management, architecture, and the raw talent of the team can affect productivity by a factor of 10 or more. |
| 17:55 | <&McMartin> | I think that *also* contributes to burnout; if there's a superstar nearby and you're in the close-but-not-quite tier you may end up pushing yourself harder than you should for pride |
| 18:00 | < Harlow> | :/ |
| 18:00 | < Harlow> | but pride... |
| 18:01 | <@Azash> | Pride is the best |
| 18:01 | <@Azash> | Now if only I had a basis for it |
| 18:01 | <@Azash> | ( ââ¿â) |
| 18:04 | < Harlow> | Another questions I've had for a while is, how helpful is upper level mathematics really? I'm getting a math minor, but I'm worried its going to go to waste. |
| 18:04 | <@Azash> | I think it's more like "you need it rarely but when you can use it, be happy" from what I understand |
| 18:04 | <@Azash> | Of course it also depends on what you're working on |
| 18:05 | < Harlow> | Azash: have you ever needed it? |
| 18:05 | <&McMartin> | Even if the "facts" you learn aren't relevant, the skillset of proving a theorem and the skillset of breaking down a task into something that can be implemented (by yourself or underlings) has a lot of overlap |
| 18:06 | <@Azash> | Harlow: I'm not mathematically capable as such and I've been employed for ~3 months |
| 18:06 | <@Azash> | Wrong person to ask |
| 18:06 | <@Azash> | :b |
| 18:07 | <&McMartin> | I did a math minor as well many years ago. |
| 18:07 | <&McMartin> | It certainly didn't *hurt* |
| 18:07 | <&Derakon> | Discrete math and logic will help you a lot. |
| 18:07 | <&McMartin> | Abstract Algebra is occasionally a comfort but I cannot say it has been directly applicable. |
| 18:07 | <&Derakon> | Trig and matrix math will help you a lot if you ever want to work on games, even if not in the games industry. |
| 18:07 | <@Azash> | Yeah I think the benefit is more about molding you than learning new tricks |
| 18:08 | <&Derakon> | Signal analysis will be helpful if you want to work in cameras. That's more an engineering thing though. |
| 18:08 | < Harlow> | Azash: do companies look for a proficiency in math when hiring? |
| 18:08 | <&Derakon> | Not generally. |
| 18:08 | <&McMartin> | Have not seen this |
| 18:08 | <@Azash> | Not unless they want you to do something related |
| 18:09 | <@Azash> | Like logistics software or big data or something |
| 18:09 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, if you're coding for an actuary or something it's probably more important but even there there are places for purer coders |
| 18:09 | <&McMartin> | That place is probably "lower" though :/ |
| 18:09 | <&McMartin> | The kind of linear algebra that you need to do graphical stuff seems to be more lower level than upper level math, IIRC. |
| 18:10 | <&McMartin> | The really critical stuff is lower level but it's *specific parts* of lower level |
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| 18:36 | < [R]> | Azash: Math requirements vary from field to field in software development. |
| 18:36 | < [R]> | Doing crypto research? Better know math. |
| 18:37 | < [R]> | Doing a word processor? "lol, what's math?" |
| 18:38 | <@Azash> | Doing crypto research seems more like |
| 18:38 | <@Azash> | Better be on the cutting edge of math |
| 18:38 | <@Tamber> | "Doing crypto research? Better know the Dark Math from Beyond." |
| 18:41 | <&jerith> | Harlow: I work in a somewhat atypical environment, but I probably average about 35-40 hours a week. The times at which I work those hours varies, though. |
| 18:42 | <&jerith> | For example, I worked half-days over a bunch of recent long weekends and have taken last Friday and next Monday (tomorrow) off in exchange. |
| 18:42 | < Harlow> | jerith: what do you work on ? |
| 18:42 | <&jerith> | Harlow: github.com/praekelt/vumi and github.com/praekelt/vumi-go are the main codebases. |
| 18:43 | <&jerith> | praekeltfoundation.org and praekelt.com are the company. |
| 18:44 | <&jerith> | The latter website seems to have very little on it at present, and I have no idea why. |
| 18:45 | < Harlow> | how big is this company? |
| 18:46 | <&jerith> | Harlow: Between 50 and 60 people across 6 cities in 5 countries. |
| 18:47 | <&jerith> | 6 devs, 2 ops. |
| 18:48 | <&jerith> | 3 ops, actually. We've just hired a new one. |
| 18:48 | < Harlow> | thats pretty spread out |
| 18:48 | <&jerith> | We all work from home. |
| 18:48 | <&jerith> | (Except on Monday, which is office day in Cape Town. Free lunch!) |
| 18:53 | <&jerith> | Our two main offices are in Johannesburg (about half the company) and Cape Town (most of the dev team) with mostly account managers and project managers in the rest of the places. |
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| --- Log closed Mon May 19 00:00:10 2014 |