| --- Log opened Sun Feb 16 00:00:52 2014 |
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| 00:51 | <@Alek> | Tamber: BRIIIICK? |
| 00:51 | <@Tamber> | Ayup. |
| 00:52 | <@Tamber> | Well. |
| 00:52 | <@Tamber> | Soft-brick, I guess~ |
| 00:52 | <&McMartin> | Factory-reset button still works, eh~ |
| 00:52 | <@Tamber> | I can restore it to working order when I dredge up the arsed, find my jtag doo-dah, and write the original bootloader back. |
| 00:54 | <@Tamber> | That's what I consider 'soft-brick'. "I can still sorta fix this." :p |
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| 00:55 | <@Tamber> | Now, the result of my attempting to fix it will probably be considered "totally and uttery f^Hbricked"~ |
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| 04:55 | < Harlow> | Are memory leaks common? |
| 04:55 | < Harlow> | (c++) |
| 04:55 | <&Derakon> | How do you mean? |
| 04:56 | <&Derakon> | They're relatively easy bugs to create, I guess. |
| 04:56 | <&McMartin> | But yes. |
| 04:56 | <&McMartin> | If you're on a Linux system, valgrind can help you track them down. |
| 04:56 | <~Vornicus> | Memory leaks are very common. |
| 04:56 | < Harlow> | pretty much anything crated in a loop could cause a leak correct? |
| 04:57 | <&McMartin> | Anything created with "new" can cause a leak. |
| 04:57 | <~Vornicus> | Harlow: doesn't have to be created in a loop to get leaked |
| 04:57 | <&Derakon> | Or with malloc. |
| 04:57 | < Harlow> | NEW! |
| 04:57 | <&McMartin> | Derakon: You really should not be using malloc in C++ code. |
| 04:57 | < Harlow> | shit, thats got to be the root of my problem. |
| 04:57 | <~Vornicus> | Well, duh |
| 04:57 | <&Derakon> | McM: well, probably not, but since when has that stopped anyone? |
| 04:57 | <@celticminstrel> | ^ |
| 04:57 | <&Derakon> | Every new() should be accompanied by a free(). |
| 04:57 | <&McMartin> | No. |
| 04:57 | <&McMartin> | Every new should be accompanied by a delete. |
| 04:57 | <&McMartin> | free goes with malloc |
| 04:57 | <&Derakon> | Oh, sorry. |
| 04:58 | <&Derakon> | I haven't been working in C++ lately. |
| 04:58 | <&McMartin> | Attempting to delete something malloc()ed, or to free something newed, will corrupt the heap |
| 04:58 | <&McMartin> | Also, attempting to delete[] something newed, or delete something new[]ed, will *also* corrupt the heap. Hooray! |
| 04:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | :c++: |
| 04:58 | <&Derakon> | Bottom line: there's a reason people use languages that handle memory management for them. |
| 04:59 | <&Derakon> | (And yet my pure-Python microscope control program still has a memory leak somewhere...) |
| 04:59 | <&McMartin> | Harlow: Anyway, if you're using a loop to fill up an array or std::vector or whatever with newed, pointers, then if you have a similar loop later on that systematically delete()s those entries, you will not leak memory. |
| 04:59 | < Harlow> | McMartin: what about a list? |
| 04:59 | <@celticminstrel> | Same thing. |
| 04:59 | <&McMartin> | lists, deques, maps, etc. all fall under "whatever" there. |
| 04:59 | <&McMartin> | If you want to have the simple cases handled automatically with a simple reference-counting implementation, look at boost::shared_ptr |
| 04:59 | < Harlow> | k |
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| 05:00 | <~Vornicus> | If you don't make it with new, it doesn't go on the heap, and it's either static (and thus is mapped into memory and stays there forever) or on the stack (and thus disappears when you pop off the frame it's in) |
| 05:00 | <@celticminstrel> | shared_ptr is in the standard library now. |
| 05:00 | <&McMartin> | In compilers that don't exist yet =P |
| 05:00 | <@celticminstrel> | Huh? |
| 05:00 | <&McMartin> | If these are value objects with working copy constructors, consider having your list be of the raw type rather a pointer type |
| 05:00 | < Harlow> | well if i call erase on an object in my list, should it not be freed from ram? |
| 05:00 | <&Derakon> | CM: "in the standard" and "implemented by compilers" are different things. |
| 05:01 | <&McMartin> | celticminstrel: C++11 is not widely used IME |
| 05:01 | <@celticminstrel> | Yes, but not in this particular case. |
| 05:01 | <&McMartin> | Harlow: No, that will call the destructor on the element type |
| 05:01 | <@celticminstrel> | Though, I'm not sure which compilers implement it. |
| 05:01 | <&McMartin> | IF the element type is Whatever *, that's a pointer, and pointers do not have destructors. |
| 05:01 | <&McMartin> | So you would need to manually delete the element before calling erase. |
| 05:01 | <&McMartin> | But that's dangerous if anyone had copies of the pointer around |
| 05:02 | <&McMartin> | Which is why you should use something like shared_ptr for that |
| 05:02 | <&McMartin> | But if this is a list of, like, strings |
| 05:02 | < Harlow> | so i need to run delete() on the object, after i unlink it from the list? |
| 05:02 | <&McMartin> | Then just have it be std::list<std::string> and be done with it. |
| 05:02 | <&McMartin> | *before* you unlink it, ideally. |
| 05:02 | <@celticminstrel> | Delete is not a function. |
| 05:02 | <&McMartin> | Sure |
| 05:02 | <&McMartin> | But parens are legal around expressions~ |
| 05:03 | <@celticminstrel> | Though, using parentheses there is valid, I guess. |
| 05:03 | <@celticminstrel> | It'd look odd if you were doing array-delete. |
| 05:03 | <&McMartin> | array-delete *always* looks odd. =P |
| 05:03 | <@celticminstrel> | Fair enough. |
| 05:03 | | * McMartin is currently in C land over here |
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| 05:12 | < Harlow> | Well, I might have to jump off the SFML bandwagon, there seems to be a memory leak in the default library. This is moderately sad, I thought it was just my program. |
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| 05:15 | | * Vornicus should actually get started on C# |
| 05:17 | < Harlow> | how long should a deferred release take? |
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| 05:42 | <&McMartin> | Deferred release isn't part of C++; destruction happens at the instant an object leaves scope |
| 05:42 | <&McMartin> | If you're using shared pointers or whatever, there may be an extra pointer sitting around somewhere keeping the data alive |
| 05:43 | <&McMartin> | This is an issue with all languages with dynamic allocation, though, not at all unique to C++ |
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| 06:32 | <~Vornicus> | Nice thing about using inform 7 to map caves in Minecraft: despite some silly missteps, the map makes an irredeemable warren of tunnels somewhat manageable to explore. Bad thing about it: Jesus Dubstepping Christ, this cave is an irredeemable warren |
| 06:33 | <&McMartin> | Jesus Dubstepping Christ? Is this the Jesus that Wubs All The Children of God? |
| 06:34 | <~Vornicus> | Yes. |
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| 09:07 | <&McMartin> | Argh |
| 09:07 | | * McMartin flails at C's lack of generators |
| 09:07 | <&McMartin> | Or, I guess, its lack of coroutines |
| 09:13 | | * Vornicus hunts for an i7 extension: he's now lost in the maze and needs directions to get out... |
| 09:13 | <&McMartin> | Bronze does something like this |
| 09:16 | <~Vornicus> | it's even got source, let's see what I can find. |
| 09:17 | <~Vornicus> | Here we are, 4.1.5, "go to [any room]" |
| 09:18 | <&McMartin> | ISTR that I7 has some native pathfinding features in it |
| 09:20 | | * Vornicus wanders the documentation to see if he can find it. |
| 09:24 | <~Vornicus> | Ah, yes! "best route" |
| 09:28 | | * Vornicus tries to figure out how to phrase "what room should I travel to next?" -- best route gives a direction... |
| 09:29 | <&McMartin> | "the room foo from the location" |
| 09:31 | <&McMartin> | I think I did a few tricks like that with FotH because I'd rewire where exits went when the spaceship moved |
| 09:32 | <~Vornicus> | How do I make "the best route from the location to home" act as "foo" there |
| 09:32 | <&McMartin> | But I don't remember offhand if I did that by looking at the exits or if I did it by checking which scene was running |
| 09:32 | <&McMartin> | Quite possibly by direct substitution! |
| 09:32 | <&McMartin> | But if not: |
| 09:32 | <&McMartin> | "let foo be the best route from the location to home" |
| 09:34 | <~Vornicus> | Looks like I need to put that in something to let it know that htat needs to be run... |
| 09:35 | <&McMartin> | Oh, well, yes |
| 09:35 | <&McMartin> | Presumably as an action routine for a command like, well, "go to [any room]" |
| 09:36 | <~Vornicus> | Got it, I think |
| 09:39 | <~Vornicus> | Okay, now all I have to do is do it when play starts too. |
| 09:40 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 09:42 | <~Vornicus> | ...would also be nice if it showed up after the room name and description. |
| 09:43 | <&McMartin> | Have an Every Turn rule? |
| 09:45 | <~Vornicus> | Puts it at the end, but doesn't seem to run when I've just started. |
| 09:45 | <~Vornicus> | I guess I can live though; now that it happens every turn, I can start with z and it'll tell me |
| 09:46 | <~Vornicus> | Thank you! |
| 09:49 | <~Vornicus> | Works like a charm. |
| 09:53 | | * Vornicus hunts the debug commands. Probably one here that does what he needs. |
| 09:54 | <~Vornicus> | (namely, having to tell in source what room to start in is annoying |
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| 09:57 | <&McMartin> | GONEAR, I think |
| 09:58 | <&McMartin> | That said, "teleport to [any room]" is super easy to implement =P |
| 10:01 | <~Vornicus> | carry out teleporting to a room: now the player is in that room. |
| 10:02 | <~Vornicus> | understand "teleport to [any room]" as teleporting to a room. |
| 10:03 | <&McMartin> | I believe you want to use "move the player to that room" because moving the player has some extra machinery attached. |
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| 10:04 | <~Vornicus> | ah. |
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| 10:16 | | * Vornicus has trouble figuring out what precisely he's doing wrong. |
| 10:16 | <~Vornicus> | Teleporting to is an action applying to a room. |
| 10:16 | <~Vornicus> | Carry out teleporting to a room: move the player to that room. |
| 10:16 | <~Vornicus> | Understand "teleport to [any room]" as teleporting to. |
| 10:17 | <~Vornicus> | I tried a couple of other things; without the to's, for instance, and not including the action description, and... but it's complaining that a room isn't a thing? |
| 10:17 | <&McMartin> | Maybe "to the noun" instead of "to that room"? |
| 10:17 | <&McMartin> | Also try "carry out teleporting to:" |
| 10:18 | <&McMartin> | Rooms are indeed not things, incidentally~ |
| 10:18 | <~Vornicus> | It's actually at the moment complaining about the /first/ line. |
| 10:18 | <~Vornicus> | Problem. You wrote 'Teleporting to is an action applying to a room': but an action can only apply to things or to kinds of value, for instance: 'photographing is an action applying to one visible thing'. |
| 10:18 | <&McMartin> | OK, this has to be in the Recipe Book |
| 10:21 | <~Vornicus> | "teleport" is not, apparently, in the documentation |
| 10:21 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 10:21 | <&McMartin> | "Misadventure", in 16.10, has one that respects movement rules |
| 10:21 | <&McMartin> | Apparently rooms *are* things when you are parsing |
| 10:22 | <~Vornicus> | "annoyotron jr" |
| 10:22 | <&McMartin> | Hee |
| 10:22 | <&McMartin> | Still no progress recently on the Atrocitron~ |
| 10:22 | <~Vornicus> | Sadness! |
| 10:22 | <&McMartin> | I'm Monocling instead |
| 10:23 | <~Vornicus> | happiness! |
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| 10:41 | <~Vornicus> | Okay, one last thing and then I think I've got it all. seek goal is a thing; I have a command called "seek to" that lets me move it whereever I want. So far, so good. Now, I want to make it so when it tells me which direction to go, it goes to the room with the seek goal in it. Not too hard except I can't figure out the phrase to use to mean "the room containing the seek goal" |
| 10:42 | <&McMartin> | It's been awhile since I've done this, but I think that's "the location of the seek goal" |
| 10:42 | <~Vornicus> | ...yay! |
| 10:42 | <~Vornicus> | Okay. All the tools work and it's all your fault |
| 10:42 | <&McMartin> | OH HO HO |
| 10:42 | <&McMartin> | MINE IS AN EVIL LAUGH |
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| 10:43 | | * McMartin suddenly but inevitably betrays Syka |
| 10:44 | <&McMartin> | Vornicus: What is this tool, anyway? |
| 10:45 | <~Vornicus> | So, following TF's advice, I'm using Inform 7 to map out the caves in my minecraft game. |
| 10:45 | <~Vornicus> | This works pretty reasonably, though the actual /maps/ it draws can get a little strange. |
| 10:46 | < Syka> | wut |
| 10:46 | <~Vornicus> | In any case, I found myself in a conundrum: now that I'm down here, how the heck do I get home? |
| 10:46 | <&McMartin> | 02:38 <~Vornicus> ...yay! |
| 10:46 | <&McMartin> | 02:38 <~Vornicus> Okay. All the tools work and it's all your fault |
| 10:46 | <&McMartin> | 02:39 <&McMartin> OH HO HO |
| 10:46 | <&McMartin> | 02:39 <&McMartin> MINE IS AN EVIL LAUGH |
| 10:46 | <&McMartin> | 02:39 -!- Syka [the@Nightstar-qhd.0e5.159.1.IP] has joined #code |
| 10:46 | <&McMartin> | 02:39 * McMartin suddenly but inevitably betrays Syka |
| 10:46 | <~Vornicus> | I mean, I have over 100 waypoints marked. It's a terrible, unconscionable maze down here, even knowing where I've been. |
| 10:47 | <&McMartin> | Man, this does not inspire me to play Minecraft |
| 10:48 | <~Vornicus> | So now, I've written some tools that let me -- when I get lost, or need to get somewhere specific -- find my way around. |
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| 10:55 | <~Vornicus> | I'd say that exploring large caves is the most pain in the butt thing in Minecraft. |
| 10:55 | <&McMartin> | OK, no regressions |
| 10:55 | <&McMartin> | Of course, also no tests for the new code~ |
| 10:58 | <~Vornicus> | heh |
| 11:00 | <&McMartin> | But that also means that my generator created by three nested loops is not crashing the system when empty |
| 11:01 | <&McMartin> | This is going to be a bear to test >_< |
| 11:04 | <&McMartin> | But it's 3 AM, so, slep for the slep god |
| 11:04 | <~Vornicus> | nini |
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| 11:12 | <&McMartin> | (This new code is the thing that actually tests for collisions) |
| 11:12 | <&McMartin> | (So once it's working, I get to start trying to write Actual Games with this) |
| 11:16 | <~Vornicus> | (hooray) |
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| 19:21 | < pasadena> | !list |
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| 19:24 | <@Tamber> | People still actually *use* warezbots? :p |
| 19:24 | < simon_> | heh |
| 19:27 | < simon_> | does anyone here know how to define the width of a plot in R? |
| 19:27 | < simon_> | maybe I should just stretch the .eps I generate. |
| 19:27 | < simon_> | I'd prefer if R just generated something rectangular. |
| 19:27 | <@Alek> | Tamber: not on this network, but I'm sure on some others. |
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| 19:31 | <@Azash> | There's a certain well-known channel for getting ebooks, for example |
| 19:32 | <@Alek> | it might be well-known, but I for one don't know it. :P |
| 19:38 | <@Azash> | :P |
| 19:38 | <@Azash> | I think even offering to query it to you would get me .lined, so I won't tell you |
| 19:39 | <@Tamber> | *snrk* |
| 19:41 | <@Alek> | :P |
| 19:46 | | Kindamoody|gaming is now known as Kindamoody |
| 19:46 | | * simon_ figured it out |
| 19:47 | <@gnolam> | Ah, the plot thickens! |
| 20:24 | <@gnolam> | ... |
| 20:24 | <@gnolam> | ... ok, what the actual fuck, Qt. |
| 20:25 | <@gnolam> | What possible goddamned reason could you have to not give proper size hints? >:E |
| 20:26 | <@gnolam> | It seems the only way to get a minimally sized table is to subclass QTableView and make your own sizeHint()... or rather, /make up/ your own sizeHint(), with whatever fudge factors you can pull out of your ass that happen to look good on your particular platform. |
| 20:27 | <@gnolam> | Because as far as I can tell, there simply is no way to get the /actual/ size of the contents + trimmings. |
| 20:27 | <@gnolam> | Fun fun fun! |
| 20:27 | <@gnolam> | Oh, and subclassing also means you lose the use of Qt Designer. |
| 20:27 | <@gnolam> | Fun fun fun!^2 |
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| --- Log closed Mon Feb 17 00:00:07 2014 |