| --- Log opened Fri Apr 22 00:00:06 2011 |
| 00:14 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:26 | | SmithKurosaki [smith@4FC299.382CB9.EF1529.A5B039] has joined #code |
| 00:37 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:43 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 01:14 | | jerith [jerith@510B1D.77FBDC.BAA20B.2BB773] has joined #code |
| 01:29 | < McMartin> | Huh. GNOME is pushing its own programming language? |
| 01:30 | < Tamber> | All the existing ones have too many options for users to tinker with. |
| 01:31 | | Attilla [Some.Dude@Nightstar-92c9199f.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:42 | < Reivles> | ... why does it need its own programming language? |
| 01:43 | < McMartin> | Apparently because GObject and GLib generally are impossible to use properly without one, thanks to no usable language bindings to nonscripting languages. |
| 01:43 | < McMartin> | The native C bindings being basically unusable all around. |
| 01:43 | < McMartin> | http://live.gnome.org/Vala |
| 01:44 | < McMartin> | "The type system of GObject doesn't fit perfectly well with the type system of any existing programming language. Vala is designed for GObject, this makes it easy to develop GObject-based libraries with Vala that can be used from a variety of other languages and runtime environments just like all the other GObject-based libraries out there. Just like Qt's MetaObject is an extension to C++ to provide signals, slots, and object properties, Vala i |
| 01:45 | < McMartin> | That said, a C#-alike that compiles through C to native code with native GTK bindings is fairly nice and may mean GTK becomes as usable as Qt (which extends C++ via special preprocessors, as noted) |
| 01:59 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 02:48 | < Reivles> | OK uh so |
| 02:49 | < Reivles> | What the heck are they doing to types to break the normal ones so hard? |
| 03:02 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 03:15 | < McMartin> | I've kind of gone out of my way to not pay attention to GLib/GTK/GObject development, so I don't know offhand. |
| 03:15 | < Reivles> | Fair enough |
| 03:15 | < Reivles> | In other news, Postscript is not nearly as logical and straightforward as I'd hoped. |
| 03:16 | < Reivles> | I should probably have known better, as it was not, IIRC, intended to be used by handcoders and not designed in Modern Times, but... |
| 03:33 | | Silver_Adept [Annette_Aiwoh@Nightstar-0bcc338c.click-network.com] has joined #code |
| 03:34 | | * Silver_Adept would like to poke the brain of someone conversant in Rails. Preferrably Rails 3. Takers? |
| 03:35 | < Reivles> | Reccomendation: Hang around a bit; you may be surprised by the lurkers (It happens fairly often~) |
| 03:35 | | * Vornicus determines that Sulver doesn't know the rules of asking for help on IRC. Of which there is just one: Just Ask. |
| 03:35 | | * Vornicus determines that he can't spell, either. |
| 03:36 | | * Reivles determines that postscript terrifies him. |
| 03:36 | < Silver_Adept> | Oh. Well, I'm trying to write, from a form, two primary keys to a join table. I've got both the objects loaded properly, but I can't remember or learn how to actually write to to the join so that I get teh association I want. |
| 03:38 | < Vornicus> | ps is spectacular to work in, once you get to the point where it starts fitting together. |
| 03:38 | < Vornicus> | Silver_Adept: isn't it just, um... |
| 03:40 | < Vornicus> | well, last time I played with it anyway, it was something like this_pizza.toppings.push(pepperoni) |
| 03:40 | < Vornicus> | where this_pizza and pepperoni are your objects. |
| 03:40 | < Vornicus> | and then your table is called like pizza2topping or however it's supposed to be. |
| 03:41 | < Silver_Adept> | Right. Join table's right. And I'll I'm pushing is the id objects of those I want to associate. Is the push command done in the controller? |
| 03:41 | < Reivles> | I'll top your pizza. ?? |
| 03:42 | < Vornicus> | Something like that, yes. |
| 03:42 | < Vornicus> | where push is whatever the "add into this array" is in ruby, I haven't used it in years. |
| 03:44 | < Silver_Adept> | Huh. Seems like it should be pretty simple to extract the ids from the parameters array and then write those values into the join table. I just can't remember how. |
| 03:45 | < Vornicus> | Turn the id into an object |
| 03:49 | < Vornicus> | both of them. Then just do that. |
| 03:51 | < Silver_Adept> | Oh, good. I've turned them into objects, but I've forgotten how to extract params. |
| 03:51 | < Vornicus> | Just use the . operator. THink it's . |
| 03:51 | < Vornicus> | I don't remember though, ruby is a long time ago. |
| 03:54 | | * Silver_Adept shrugs. |
| 03:55 | < Silver_Adept> | So it would be something like update_attributes(:params(model1.model2)) or something like that? |
| 03:58 | < Vornicus> | hng. I don't know. I thought rails made direct access possible. |
| 04:01 | < Silver_Adept> | Well, it might. I'll have to go look at the scaffolded code. |
| 04:08 | < Silver_Adept> | So, yeah, there's an update_attributes thing I can do, but as far as I know, it just gathers the params for object 1. |
| 04:10 | < Vornicus> | You should be able to -- and this is iirc the Big Thing to rails/activerecord models -- set attributes using . to access them by name. |
| 04:10 | < Vornicus> | As I did above, with the pizza example. |
| 04:11 | < Vornicus> | Anyway, I need nap. |
| 04:17 | < Silver_Adept> | Nap away. |
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| 06:04 | | * Derakon blinks at Warship Gunner II. |
| 06:04 | < Derakon> | Mischan. |
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| 11:42 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 19:16 | | Rikushadow5 [DarkSunDuel@Nightstar-e196606f.int.bellsouth.net] has joined #code |
| 19:17 | < jerith> | o/ |
| 19:22 | < Rikushadow5> | Yo to the people |
| 19:22 | < jerith> | Yo to you too. |
| 19:22 | < jerith> | So. Working on anything interesting at the moment? |
| 19:23 | < Rikushadow5> | Programming Lightning from FF-XIII into JB as an enemy |
| 19:23 | < jerith> | Game stuff? |
| 19:23 | < Rikushadow5> | That's what I do. |
| 19:24 | | * jerith wrote a game recently. |
| 19:24 | < jerith> | pyweek.org/e/skaapsteker |
| 19:24 | < Rikushadow5> | Whoa. |
| 19:25 | < Rikushadow5> | Don't think I'm quite ready to advance to graphics just yet. |
| 19:25 | < Rikushadow5> | I like my text-based games just fine. |
| 19:25 | < jerith> | (Well, it wasn't just me.) |
| 19:25 | < Vornicus> | Graphics can be pretty easy. |
| 19:25 | < jerith> | I don't really do pretty pictures either. We had an artist on the team. |
| 19:26 | | * Vornicus is writing a program that takes a complicated recurrence relation and turns it into a list of actual values. |
| 19:26 | < jerith> | Rikushadow5: Vorn is our resident maths teacher. |
| 19:26 | < Vornicus> | Difficulty: there's two unidentified coefficients floatingaround in there, so it gets very frightening very quickly. |
| 19:26 | < Rikushadow5> | I figured. |
| 19:27 | | * Vornicus got a 100 on his diffeq test! First 100 in like 15 years! |
| 19:27 | < jerith> | Yay! |
| 19:27 | | * TheWatcher is currently poking at radial bar rendering |
| 19:27 | < jerith> | I thought you were the one giving the tests, though? |
| 19:27 | < Rikushadow5> | This hectopascal has no chance of deriving the equivalent of your words, Vornicus. |
| 19:27 | < TheWatcher> | Congrats, Vorn! |
| 19:27 | < Rikushadow5> | Or something like that. |
| 19:28 | < Vornicus> | In basic math and algebra 1 I give tests. In diffeq on the other hand... |
| 19:28 | | * jerith remembers being able to solve differential equations. |
| 19:29 | < jerith> | That was about... bloody hell. Nearly ten years ago. |
| 19:31 | < Vornicus> | It's a lot of fun. |
| 19:32 | < Rikushadow5> | Hm. It would appear that I am young for a coder. |
| 19:32 | < Rikushadow5> | I took Algebra II Last semester. |
| 19:32 | < Vornicus> | Well, jerith and I are kind of old hands. |
| 19:32 | < jerith> | Nah, we're younger than we sound. |
| 19:33 | < Rikushadow5> | Mind you, I'm in my 5th year of high school, but still. |
| 19:33 | < jerith> | Actually, Vorn's older than I usually think he is. |
| 19:33 | | * TheWatcher waves his cane around vaguely, while commenting |
| 19:33 | | * jerith started writing BASIC when he was 8. |
| 19:33 | | * Vornicus is 29, but people keep thinking he's 25. |
| 19:34 | | * Vornicus started writing basic when he was 5, but stopped when he was like 10 and then got back into it when he was 20. |
| 19:34 | | * Rikushadow5 hates VB.NET |
| 19:35 | | * Rikushadow5 is also hated by VB.NET |
| 19:35 | | * jerith too. |
| 19:35 | < Rikushadow5> | I hate it because it's Microsoft-Only, and I run an Ubuntu Laptop. |
| 19:35 | < jerith> | I wrote *proper* BASIC. Line numbers and everything. |
| 19:35 | < Rikushadow5> | It hates me because I let it find out that I run an Ubuntu Laptop. |
| 19:36 | < jerith> | PEEK and POKE and REM. |
| 19:36 | < Rikushadow5> | Huh |
| 19:36 | | * TheWatcher ponders, tries to remember |
| 19:36 | < TheWatcher> | I think I started with zx80 assembler when I was 8, something like that |
| 19:36 | < Rikushadow5> | So there was a time when "BASIC" wasn't something that struck aggrivation into the hearts of coders? |
| 19:37 | < Rikushadow5> | Because just about everyone in my VB.NET class is wondering why they ended up taking Level II when they hated it back in Level I |
| 19:37 | < jerith> | POKE 53280, 1 |
| 19:37 | < Rikushadow5> | And my school REQUIRES that you take VB.NET level I to take ANY OTHER Programming class. |
| 19:38 | < jerith> | Rikushadow5: BASIC has always been a dodgy language. |
| 19:38 | < jerith> | VB is far worse because it's marketed as somehting easy and useful. |
| 19:39 | < Rikushadow5> | In my experience, VB is buggier than windows Vista. |
| 19:39 | < Rikushadow5> | At least I could talk Vista into working if I pushed the right buttons. |
| 19:39 | | * jerith likes Python these days. |
| 19:39 | < jerith> | TheWatcher over there is our token crazy Perl person. |
| 19:40 | < Rikushadow5> | Our classroom copies of VisualStudio will suddenly decide that "Nope, don't care if you did everything right, I am NOT going to work." |
| 19:40 | < jerith> | We used to have an emphatic Rubyist, but he fell off IRC a few years ago. |
| 19:40 | < Rikushadow5> | Awww |
| 19:40 | < Rikushadow5> | I was about to ask if you guys had a Rubyist |
| 19:40 | < TheWatcher> | Oi, PinkFreud and Tamber can code perl, I'm just the most insane^Wdedicated of them >.> |
| 19:40 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 27 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 26 normal] |
| 19:40 | < jerith> | I wrote Ruby professionally for three years. |
| 19:41 | < Rikushadow5> | Eh, I'm liking the C Languages |
| 19:41 | < Rikushadow5> | Mostly Original C |
| 19:41 | < jerith> | C is very useful, especially for embedded stuff. |
| 19:41 | < jerith> | C++ makes my head hurt. |
| 19:41 | | * TheWatcher teaches C, when any bloody students are on the course |
| 19:41 | < jerith> | Java's tedious, but useful on occasion. |
| 19:41 | < Rikushadow5> | I dislike Java |
| 19:42 | | * jerith doesn't hire Java programmers. |
| 19:42 | < Rikushadow5> | Honestly, I'm in 3 programming classes this semseter, when I could've graduated early instead. |
| 19:42 | < Rikushadow5> | And I'm not sure why I'm in any of them. |
| 19:42 | < jerith> | (Although I'm quite happy to hire programmers who know Java.) |
| 19:42 | < Rikushadow5> | I don't even know HOW I passed VB I |
| 19:43 | < jerith> | The programming courses in my EE degree were a semester of VB6 and then a semester of C. |
| 19:43 | < Rikushadow5> | I hate VB, Java gives me attitude, and C++...is C++ |
| 19:43 | < jerith> | It took us the entire semester of C to unteach all the bad habits from VB. |
| 19:43 | < jerith> | Case matters, dammit! |
| 19:44 | < Rikushadow5> | It does matter in C? |
| 19:44 | < TheWatcher> | yep |
| 19:44 | < Rikushadow5> | I haven't tested it yet, but I didn't think it did. |
| 19:45 | < TheWatcher> | Pretty much every sane language (and several insane ones) are case sensitive. |
| 19:45 | | * TheWatcher eyes that sentence, s/are/is/ |
| 19:46 | | * TheWatcher mehs at grammar silliness |
| 19:46 | < jerith> | Interesting tidbit. COBOL puts function parameters in statically allocated memory instead of a stack. |
| 19:47 | < jerith> | This means that you cannot recurse. |
| 19:47 | < Zon> | ADD 1 TO COBOL GIVING COBOL |
| 19:47 | < Rikushadow5> | LIGHTNING. Y U NO USE RUINGA PROPERLY. |
| 19:47 | < McMartin> | jerith: Didn't Fortran do that for ages too? |
| 19:48 | < Rikushadow5> | Owait |
| 19:48 | < Rikushadow5> | Derp. |
| 19:48 | < McMartin> | Everything but LISP basically did for quite a while there. |
| 19:48 | < jerith> | A friend of mine discovered this, and decided to use "write a recursive Fibonacci calculator in COBOL" as an interview question. |
| 19:48 | < TheWatcher> | That's evil |
| 19:48 | < McMartin> | Presumably by building your own call stack. |
| 19:49 | < Rikushadow5> | So, if the response isn't "It can't be done", are they disqualified? |
| 19:49 | < McMartin> | It *can* be done. |
| 19:49 | < jerith> | To which my immediate response was "Step 1: Write a LISP compiler in COBOL". |
| 19:49 | < McMartin> | The language just doesn't provide support for it. |
| 19:49 | | * TheWatcher fingertappity, to SDL 1.3 or not to SDL 1.3, that is the question |
| 19:50 | < jerith> | Speaking of interviews, apparently my friend at the radiotelescope place has convinced his boss that a coding exercise is a good thing to give to applicants for a Senior Programmer position. |
| 19:51 | < McMartin> | TW: Eek. |
| 19:51 | < jerith> | Which is good for me, since apparently very few of the other applicants can actually write code. |
| 19:51 | < McMartin> | That's a hard question. |
| 19:51 | < TheWatcher> | Yeah, seriously, especially as it looks like they're changing stuff that directly impacts what I'm doing right now |
| 19:53 | < Rikushadow5> | Wait, what? |
| 19:53 | < Rikushadow5> | What I just processed that as: "Senior Programmers don't nessicarily know how to Code." |
| 19:54 | < Rikushadow5> | How would...? |
| 19:54 | < Rikushadow5> | ...I give up. |
| 19:54 | < TheWatcher> | Sod it, I have 1.2 working, I'll fix for 1.3 when the beta comes out. |
| 19:55 | < jerith> | Rikushadow5: Damagement doesn't have a technical background. |
| 19:55 | < Rikushadow5> | Ah. That makes more sense. I was getting worried for a second. |
| 19:55 | | * TheWatcher is going to have to fix SDL_imagesave soon too, he expects. |
| 19:57 | < jerith> | There are two awesome devs there, so dodgy damagement is less problematic. |
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| 22:19 | < Rikushadow5> | If I ever start a band, i want it to be called "StalKing Children" |
| 22:20 | < Rikushadow5> | After the LoZ enemy. |
| 22:20 | < Rikushadow5> | But it'd still be amusing to say "WE ARE STALKING CHILDREN! ONE TWO THREE FOUR!!" |
| 22:24 | | * jerith chuckles. |
| 22:28 | < Stalker> | :) |
| 22:30 | | JapanBot [JapanBot@Nightstar-e196606f.int.bellsouth.net] has joined #code |
| 22:30 | < Rikushadow5> | Let's try this again |
| 22:30 | < Rikushadow5> | $AR_Amazigirl Rikushadow5 |
| 22:30 | < JapanBot> | Rikushadow5 :: ASSIST |
| 22:30 | < JapanBot> | Amazi-Girl: "Amazi-Girl is here!!" |
| 22:30 | < JapanBot> | Amazi-Girl attacks Rikushadow5!! |
| 22:30 | < JapanBot> | Amazi-Girl: "Eh, some other time then." |
| 22:30 | < JapanBot> | Amazi-Girl Disappears!! |
| 22:30 | < Rikushadow5> | ...Okay, then... |
| 22:30 | < Rikushadow5> | It works |
| 22:31 | < Rikushadow5> | Apparently putting things after an If/Then statement without an Else makes everything else after it null and void |
| 22:32 | < Rikushadow5> | If the Conditions of the If Statement aren't met, anyway. |
| 22:33 | < Rikushadow5> | DERP. /if is not a command |
| 22:40 | | * Rikushadow5 is away: Shower Tiem :D |
| 22:47 | < celticminstrel> | Shortpacked? |
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| 23:22 | | * Rikushadow5 is back (gone 00:42:13) |
| 23:23 | < Rikushadow5> | Eh? He's gone. |
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| 23:43 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| --- Log closed Sat Apr 23 00:00:20 2011 |